The Third Space Gallery Podcast


Third Space is thrilled to announce its new podcast featuring themed episodes with artists, community members, and professionals.

Listen to all available episodes on Spotify, Apple Music, or on our website (below).

This podcast is hosted and produced by Abigail Smith, with production support from Local 107.3fm. If you are interested in broadcasting or podcasting, reach out to Saint John’s only Campus and Community Radio Station, Local 107.3fm for more information! Email Local FM Station Manager Julia Rogers at or go to their website at

Our theme music is Norwood Falls by Wangled Teb, and our artwork is by Jud Crandall of Pulp and Paper Designs. 

EPISODE ONE: Third Space Gallery History 

Welcome to episode one of the Third Space Gallery Podcast! We’re kicking off the launch of this podcast with a retrospective look at the genesis of Third Space Gallery in a conversation with founders Judith Mackin and Chris Lloyd. Following that is a conversation with Emily Saab, the first Executive Director of Third Space Gallery, and oversaw the first iterations of the Gallery’s contemporary art festival THIRD SHIFT. 

Listen to “Third Space Gallery History” here! 

EPISODE TWO: Cripping the Arts

This episode on “Cripping the Arts” features interviews with artist Ysabelle Vautour on her own painting practice and accessibility in art spaces, as well as an interview with artist and curator Christiana Myers on arts organizations evolving relationship with accessibility work.

Listen to “Cripping the Arts” here!

Check out the Christiana Myers’ article “On the Complexity of Cripping the Arts” from Canadian Art Magazine. 

About the artists:

Christiana Myers is a curator, writer, artist, and museum educator based in Menagoesg/Saint John, New Brunswick. Her practice often revolves around the concept of care—for oneself, others, communities, or the environment, and her recent writing on disability and access, public art, and the intersection of art with climate justice have appeared in Canadian Art, C Magazine, and publications by the Owen’s Art Gallery and Goose Lane Editions.

Ysabelle Vautour is an Acadian artist and art teacher, who started out working in the mental health and disability support sector. She began painting two years ago when she decided to paint and create art every day for a year. Ysabelle uses a contemplative approach to her portraits. She has ten years of experience in both improv and swing dancing, so it’s not surprising that she paints intuitively and enjoys the process of creating things in the moment as they are happening.

Ysabelle Vautour’s full bio and website:

EPISODE THREE: Queer Spaces and Creativity with Chroma

Chroma: Pride, Inclusion, Equality Inc. is a community organization focusing on advocating for 2SLGBTQIA+ people in the Saint John Region. Their goal is to promote initiatives and highlight issues impacting our community by maintaining a strong cohesive voice. They promote inclusion through their programs and services, and address community needs including basic human rights, employment equality, health and well-being, and housing in collaboration with local community partners.

Alex Ash (they/them) is a passionate believer in community, grassroots movements for change, building connections, and the power of learning. Originally from London, UK, they have called Saint John home for two and a half years. Alex is currently a coach at the Saint John Learning Exchange, a non-profit organization that strives to empower people to reach their education and employment goals. Alex strives to collaborate in all areas of their life and is driven by a desire to create safe space for all members of their community. 

Learn more about Chroma at

Listen to “Queer Spaces and Creativity with Chroma” here!

EPISODE FOUR: The Intersection of Art & Industry with Metalsmith Guylaine Cyr 

Guylaine Cyr is fascinated by shiny things and the infinite possibilities of metals. She started her education with a certificate in Foundation Visual Arts at the New Brunswick College of Craft and Design (NBCCD) in Fredericton in 1998. She was attracted to larger scale work but decided to pursue jewellery and small objects design at Kootenay School of the Arts in Nelson, British Columbia, where she also learned aluminium and bronze sculptural casting. She worked alongside a master blacksmith as well as a specialized contractor of large scale public art works where she assisted in the fabrication of multiple large sculptures of steel and aluminium destined for permanent installation at public areas around Quebec and Ontario.

In 2014 she was approached to create a sculptural piece for the World Acadian Congress. Since then she has created and fabricated public sculptural work for the city of Edmundston, and Dieppe in New Brunswick. She has always kept up her jewellery practice.

Check out Guylaine’s website:

Listen to “The Intersection of Art & Industry” here!

EPISODE FIVE: Rural Art Making with Cheryl Johnson

Welcome to the Third Space Gallery Podcast, I am your host Abigail Smith. Today’s episode, Rural Art Making with Cheryl Johnson. I loved this conversation with taxidermist and entrepreneur Cheryl Johnson about her relationship with her rural surroundings and how they relate to her art practice and business. I did end up going hunting with her last winter after we recorded this interview and while I didn’t snag us a meal I did have a lot of fun in the Woods, so thank you Cheryl both for this interview and that experience. 

The Third Space Gallery Podcast is produced by me, Abigail Smith through Third Space Gallery, with huge support from Local 107.3fm. Third Space Gallery and Local 107.3fm operate on the traditional, unsurrendered territories of the Wolastoqey, Mi’gmaq, and Peskotomuhkati Peoples. The City of Saint John sits at the mouth of the Wolastoq, the beautiful and bountiful river, where Indigenous Peoples have lived, travelled, traded, celebrated, and made music for thousands of years. Thank you for recognizing and respecting the custodians of the lands and waters upon which we now collectively live, create, and reflect. At recording time of this podcast, the Government of New Brunswick recently announced to all government employees that they are to cease using land acknowledgements in their correspondence, events, and documents. I would like to quote from the letter released by the six Chiefs of the Wolastoqey Nation in New Brunswick; 

“Rather than acknowledge the historical truth of lands within New Brunswick, GNB is issuing a gag order against its employees to stop them from speaking the truth as well. It is obvious to any rational thinkers that this prohibition is disrespectful to First Nations people. But beyond the obvious, the memo is clearly a scare tactic and speaks to an underbelly of censorship that is now on full display at GNB.” 

As per the recommendation of this letter by the six chiefs of the Wolastoqey Nation in New Brunswick, I will repeat that the land on which we operate and the land discussed in the rest of this episode is the unsurrendered and traditional territories of the Wolastoqey, Mi’gmaq, and Peskotomuhkati Peoples. 

APTN Article that includes the six chiefs letter. 

Cheryl Johnson is an artist and teacher in rural New Brunswick. They work with found objects and natural materials from the backwoods to create unique pieces through various methods of preservation, including taxidermy. Her work is dependent on what nature provides and varies according to the seasons: It is structural, whimsical, and sometimes scary. She can be found online at 

Listen to “Rural Art Making” here!

EPISODE SIX: Changing Mediums with KC Wilcox

KC Wilcox is an artist, designer and shopkeeper. She graduated from NSCAD with a B.Des in 2014. Her artwork was shown at THIRD SHIFT (2020, 2019), the Beaverbrook Art Gallery (2018), Third Space (2017), and The Unlovable Gallery (2017). Her most recent design project was Harbour: A Compendium, curated and published by Amy Ash (2020). She lives in Menagoesg/Saint John, New Brunswick, where she started Visitors, a shop and studio, in 2019, with her collaborator, Emily Saab. Wilcox is a descendant of European settlers of English and French origins. Her ancestors settled on the unceded land of the Wolastoqiyik and Mi’kmaq peoples during the 19th century. She is a former Executive Director of Connexion, an artist-run centre for contemporary art in Fredericton, NB.

Listen to “Changing Mediums” here!

EPISODE SEVEN: Art Therapy with Kim Cookson

“Let people be who they are, and let the art do the work.” – Kim Cookson 

On this week’s episode, Abigail Smith speaks with community art teacher, Kim Cookson, about the value of setting aside time for creativity, working through grief with art, and Kim’s approach to her work and art-making.

Kim’s passion is to share the love of creating art to help people feel good about themselves because art brings out an individual’s feeling of peace, love, joy, collaboration, mutual respect, positive energy and most of all the world of play. Everyone has it in them to create a natural state of being. Doing creative activities such as art is a positive health benefit to improve the quality or life for all humans. 

Listen to “Art Therapy” here!

Find Kim online and on social media @canadasartmamma

About the TSG Artwork

Prior to its demolition in 2004, the old Lantic Sugar Refinery loomed next to Tin Can Beach, like some discarded gothic horror film backlot. For all the rusted out decay and detritus that typified the place, it was not without it’s points of life and light. Outside, grass was everywhere reclaiming the site, which stood open to the sky and sea, while inside, industrial oases like this strange little room awaited discovery.

At a different time of day, or following some other corner turned, this secret may have remained kept, but I was fortunate to happen upon this sudden brightness and colour. Because it was such a small room, I could not get enough distance inside to get it all in one photograph, and so multiple shots were assembled as a composite.

When asked to create an icon to accompany the new Third Space Gallery podcast, this room came back to me, playing on many themes familiar to creators, as well as patrons of contemporary art in Saint John. A lost locale, a conditional diamond, a makeshift space in resistance to its environment, or if not resistant, perhaps a space that plays a unique role therein. A splash of relief, a contrasting idea, an assemblage in search of the most of one’s circumstances.

As the site surrounding Tin Can Beach continues to be a location in transition in Saint John’s South End, industrially, ecologically, and soon to be residential as well, I am so happy for this secret space, and these hidden images, to re-emerge as a badge for the creativity and labour that Third Space continues to conduct and cultivate in our region.

Jud Crandall, 2021